Hadith Rejector Caught Lying Live On Stream! Muhammed Ali

How are you ?

Mark you ?

Good .

Yeah , I'm good .

How are you ?

I'm ok .

You're no , you're a non Muslim .

Yeah .

Mhm .

Ok .

So , uh can I help you ?

How can I help you ?

Yeah .

So basically I've kind of been contemplating um conversion to Islam , but there are a couple of issues that I have and some problematic concerns that I have and I tried to discuss them with some of my friends , some of my Muslim friends , but I wasn't really able to get the answers that I want and I don't really blame them .

You know , it's kind of difficult to discuss more controversial issues with people who aren't that well versed and I highly respect and kind of revere your knowledge and the depth of your understanding of Islam .

So I kind of wanted to come on because the answers that I'm looking for are I think they transcend the typical knowledge that most people have no problem .

So the issue , the main issues that I have is the sources of theology .

So just correct me if I'm wrong , but the primary source of Islamic theology or the Sharia comes from the Quran , is that correct Yes .

Ok .

And then let me ask you , where are you from ?

I'm from America originally .

Mhm .

Originally .

Where , where are your parents from ?

My ethnicity from Mississippi .

And my dad is from Texas .

Ok .

Ok .

It's interesting how you pronounce the Quran .

But it's like , not about how our an average American would pronounce it .

I would say , do I look like anyone other than not ?

No , no , it's not the , look , this is how you pronounce the Quran Kan .

That's an easy word to pronounce .

Not for everyone .

Yeah .

So as I was saying , so the two sources of the um Sharia jurisdiction come from the Quran and the hadith .

Is that correct ?

OK .

So what I want to kind of understand is , are you outside of the fold of Islam ?

Because um there's a concept in Islam about the consensus , right ?

The IJ Mao , is that correct ?

Yes .

OK .

So as I understand it , there's the IJ Mao or the um Jama which is the consensus and the progeny or the following of the uh the prophet .

And so what I want to understand is um are you out side of this consensus ?

Are you outside of the mainstream or the fold of Islam ?

If you disagree with some of the contents of the hadith ?

Not , not if you disagree with the Quran because I understand that the Quran is a fundamental basis of Islam .

Just so I can say I'm a hadith .

Well , because I believe that the hadith is important for the tradition and the preservation of tradition and you know , the prayer .

So I saw that your other , you're not , you're not a Muslim though , right ?

Can you say you're not Muslim ?

I'm not a Muslim .

So , what , what is your religion ?

So I'm atheist .

Atheist .

OK .

So you don't believe in God .

God is not a real thing ?

Well , I mean , I'm atheist but I'm the , I'm just considering other alternatives for existence because I understand that there are problematic components of the atheist ideology .

So I'm considering Islam as a primary source of like , you know , inspiration for living life and , you know , doing good deeds and being a good person overall , not necessarily as a , you know , a divine doctrine or something that can guide your um whatever beliefs you have to answer to answer your question is the , if someone rejects Hadid , then how is he from Ali ?

So what , so that includes the Hadid ?

So if you're rejecting Hadid , then you're rejecting the Sun .

And then how can you be the people of the Sun when you are rejecting the Sun ?

Well , not the entire thing .

That's my point .

So I understand that there are very important hadith about prayer about no , no .

If you reject , if you reject the authentic hadith of the prophet are , if they're authentic and you reject them , then you are not being from a Sun Jamma .

It's even if it's a single Hadid and there is consensus .

If someone believes there is like , for example , if the has report reports consensus , a person who rejects authentic hadith knowing , he knows this is from the prophet Ario to one authentic hadith .

He knows it's from the prophet , he rejects is , is committing this belief also in the Haja , he quotes , he , he quotes that kind of consensus , he quotes a and many others .

So yes , there is this idea that if you , if you , if there's a hadith is authentic , you know , it's come from the time and you reject it , there is an action of disbelief because you're rejecting the message of the prophet basically .

So , so thanks for clearing that up .

Um So now that I have that understanding kind of a follow up question .

So what is the approach that a person ?

Well , firstly , I think before asking that question , I want to preface with another question .

If you want to go about a critique of the hadith or trying to identify a contradiction between hadith and Quran , do you require like a scholarly background ?

Because I understand that the interpretation of Arabic is very difficult and there are many people who mises things and mistranslation .

Yes , you do .

Yes , you do to simply answer you , you require , I wouldn't say necessarily a scholar , but you require the tools to understand what a contradiction is from an Islamic perspective .

OK .

Well , when I asked my friend about that , he , well , obviously my friend is not nearly as knowledgeable as you , but he had a different view and he said that um on an independent basis , then it is appropriate because Kan says AFA Aquilo , uh I don't know if I did .

I say that right ?

Continue .

No problem .

So , so your friend is wrong , your friend is wrong .

So what do you , so then how do you interpret A T A T has nothing to do with contradictions .

It just means don't be a reason and , and verse , it depends , it depends which verses are you talking about ?

Because there are so many verses in that is a , you , you need to take the context of the verse and what the verse says and then it ends by a tun because it's already give you a sign or talk to you about a specific topic .

Now , no one says don't use reasoning .

Part of reasoning is to understand that certain religious text , you need certain tools in order for you to understand it .

So it is against reasoning that you do not learn the tools to understand the scripture and then think that you understand what you're saying and say that there is a contradiction .

So it is absolute reasoning to understand that you need the tools and you need to use the tools in order for you to understand what contradiction is and what is not a prediction .

So that's the answer to what you're saying .

So , I mean , I guess .

Yeah , that's why I guess why I came on here too so that I could , you know , get a more nuanced understanding of it and try to cast it in a light of knowledge because I am very ignorant about matters like this .

But I do think , and I don't know if you'll agree with me on this , but I do think that it from the Quran , we can kind of get the impression , uh God calls upon his followers to question things .

Do you agree like to question whatever is being proposed ?

Um you know , in a theological capacity and not whatever ?

No .

In fact , there is express verses that says , don't question certain things a a an example where Allah says , all you who believe , do not ask about certain things .

If you ask upon you ask and they will reveal to you , they would be difficult for you .

And then there is a reason for revelation of this verse .

And the hadith , for example , a man was asking the professors , he had obligatory every year and the prophet didn't respond .

And he asked him again and he asked him again and he asked him again .

Then the prophet said , you ask him about certain things that if you kept asking about and I give you an answer , it would be and you wouldn't be able to fulfill that obligation .

You wouldn't be able to go every year .

So do not ask about certain things that can be difficult for you if you ask .

So yes , a level of inquisitiveness within reason to do the important things .

It is acceptable , but absolutely just asking is not correct .

And in fact , the pro system explicit , this is in Allah , Allah has dislike that you just just keep asking questions for no reason .

Why is this ?

Why is this , why is this , why , why , why , why , why ?

So it's not , there is a balance and there is a middle path and there is a wise way to go about asking questions and this is what Islam allows .

So what about the what again , referencing ?

What about the AA that says , I don't know if I'll , I'll say this correctly .

But uh while I talk for male in the summer , Bosu Kana and Hum Maula .

So that's the versus addressing you .

It is it Yes , my interpretation of it is that if you don't believe somebody is addressing , you do not speak that which you don't know , you cannot interpret because you're , you're not a Muslim , you don't even know what anything of Islamic sources .

So that verse that is saying , do not speak that which you do not know is addressing you because you speak in , you've given an introduction of the Koran , you not even a king can mean multiple things .

One of them is to say as Abdulla naas says , and it can mean to follow that which you do not know , it can mean different things one of them is to say , which is like you're doing right now saying that you do not know .

Yeah .

Well , that's why I'm trying to get the conversation with you .

So , you know , but you said your interpretation of it , which means that you're given an interpret , you ask me a question .

I mean , you see that my interpret interpretation of it was incorrect .

I mean , again , I'll say again , I'll humble myself and say , no , you're way more correct and knowledgeable on these matters than me .

But um so I kind of expanding on that .

Um What do you think is a good resource ?

I mean , I don't know if you're comfortable with it because it seems like you don't have that much of a , an affinity or maybe you're exhausted , you know , from people who question the hadith .

So , is it OK right now if I like brought up some certain hadith or do you think it's not an appropriate contact ?

No , it's not really that I have an affinity or don't have an affinity , but I , I do feel like certain people come and they pretend that they're not hadith ejectors where they are hadith objections and even with the extent of lying , that they're not had objections , then all of a sudden you speak clear Arabic , Quranic Koranic Arabic for , I don't know from where , how or just start wearing a clear Koranic Arabic .

And uh and then in reality , they tried to do that in order for them to come and just ask questions in a way where they're seeming like they're polite and all of that .

Some people do that .

So I do have a problem with those type of people but sincere people , you probably , if you've been watching the stream , I can easily deal with them and engage with them and speak to them .

But people who have to face , two faces are playing games .

Those people , yeah , I obviously don't like to waste a lot of time .

No , no , I didn't speak about you .

I said people , right ?

Why , why did you take it upon yourself ?

Are you one of those people ?

No , of course not .

I'm genuinely interested in learning , I'm genuinely interested in learning about the science of Hadith .

And so I was , yeah .

OK .

So I was talking about those people .

I don't know why you talk about yourself .

So and , and I'm going to do a video specifically about Haditha rejection and the historicity of the and all of that in other gonna do a video specific video about that and then I'm going to release it and then you can probably , if you have questions specifically to do that , had it other than what I already said , you can look at that video , watch it , engage with it and then uh come to the conclusion with your uh like classical Arabic or reading of the Quran .

OK .

So , so there's no way that you would be able to answer a question .

I have not even one question about the I , I was just answering all your questions .

So why not ?

I mean , those were more generalized questions .

But I mean , like in terms of getting into the nitty gritty of it , I don't know , I'll give you an idea before you go , go ahead .

OK .

So if I am not mistaken again , I want to preface everything I say because I understand that you come across a lot of ignorant people and they , like you said , they display themselves or they try to exhibit behavior , which this is contrary to that and you don't speak Arabic .

Yeah , you don't speak Arabic .

OK .

Go ahead .

Of course .

I don't speak Arabic .

Ah , of course .

OK .

So with that being said , I sometimes they say the light appears in the face .

They say that yes .

So , well , even why you're doing this , I don't know .

OK .

So you do speak Arabic ?

Yeah .

No , no , I'm not saying that I do .

I'm saying , even if I did you speak Arabic ?

Distinct from the , I don't know why you're lying .

What is the reason you're lying ?

Why is the reason you're lying ?

And I'm lying because , because the people who don't speak Arabic do not pronounce iron and they do not pronounce the Arabic languages correctly when they read the Quran and you don't speak Arabic .

So you wouldn't be able to do that .

So I want to know why you're lying and calling yourself Mark and say you're not Muslim .

Why can't you come and with your chest open like this ?

And you know what I say , I do reject a deal would be right .

I'm not saying I'm not gonna let you guys in .

I let you guys in .

I spoke to you before but why would , why would you lie ?

I'm still gonna let you ask you a question but I don't know why you're lying .

For what reason ?

I just want to say that I understand that the majority of people you encounter were not Muslim .

OK .

OK .

Let's , let's not repeat what we said before .

Go ahead , ask the question .

OK .

So there are multiple hadith which I have encountered , which are , which I consider to be problematic from my ignorant perspective .

And I would like further edification on this matter .

So I appreciate you giving me the time and allowing me to answer the question and look , he's laughing at the Arabic because he can read it because he can read them .

And he claims he can look and he's reading them now and he's claiming he doesn't speak Arabic .

OK .

Yeah .

Go ahead .

So we suppose you speak , I can read it .

There's a difference between speaking and reading .

Yeah , of course .

Yeah .

Sure .

OK .

People can see you lie but go ahead , ask , ask a question .

OK .

So the question that I want to ask primarily concerns the topic of whether or not , the prophet was sent with an Ayat or a sign or a miracle .

So as you know , and I think this is a Mutawa hadith and Buhari and Musan and Muslim that there is a , a transmission or there is an account or testimony of the splitting of the moon .

And it's not the , it's not the Quran .

OK .

Yes , there is , there is the , I think in Sua there is but the , the tay in that item says that it is addressing the final hour .

That is the official .

Not , not only that , hold on , I don't remember the exact word and I don't want to misquote it .

So I just want to reference and now , yeah .

Oh , I didn't forget it .

I , I never knew it to begin with .

And , oh , so Quran 6109 , they swear by Allah , their most solemn oaths that if a sign were to come to them , they would certainly believe in it .

Say , oh , prophet signs are only with Allah , what will make you believers realize that even if a sign were to come to them , they would still not believe .

Can you read it in Arabic ?

Not read the Arabic ?

Ok .

I'll try but my Arabic is not good .

Uh huh .

Sorry .

How about this ?

Uh No problem .

Yeah .

Ok .

Well , he just a man him in uh Yeah .

Anyways ask the question , the question , what is your interpretation of the a it's clear the moon has split and it's a sign and when they saw the sign they denied .

So the is saying that there's a sign that was given to .

Oh , ok .

Thank you for coming on uh Mark and there's another .

Thank you .

No , no , you asked the question .

You said you're gonna ask a one and I give you the chance to ask one and people can see you now like they're all asking to kick you , but you know , I'm gonna let you go nicely .

Thank you for coming .

Thank you , Mark .

Because what a lot of people do like you , they come and then they pretend they're very nice .

So you're interrupting me .

You're not letting me speak and he played his game .

So , no , not you .

I said , how do you think they do that ?

I said I never did anything disrespectful .

Oh , no .

Yeah , absolutely .

You haven't .

He's just lying but nothing else .

But other than that , look , all people come and they , they , they kind of pretend to be something and I look , I don't know why they're scared .

I , I don't bite , you know , I usually deal with the people if they're respectful , we deal with them respectfully if they're not and we would expose their life .

But otherwise your issue anyways .

I don't understand if I want to ask you , what is the presentation of the question have to do with the question itself ?

Nothing they answered your questions .

Oh , I know .

But it seems like you're kind of accusing me of lying and you're taking , I guess , I think .

Now is that , does it work ?

Ok .

Look , Mark , thank you for coming on .

Ok .

You have another smile .

Give us another smile before go .

Yes .

Thank you very much .

Bye bye Mr Pan .

You know , how do you know how I know he was a liar as well .

First in the beginning of this discussion , you can see how I already said that he was a liar because of his pronunciation of the words as an Arab .

Straight away , I can pick up who's an Arab , who's not an Arab with the words that he says , you cannot pronounce A K and , and these letters , these are not English letters and then say I'm an American and my parents are Americans .

And then when I ask you to speak Arabic language , you say no .

And then he , he changed it .

But even if I spoke the Arabic language because he knows that he doesn't speak the Arab language and hear how he pronounced the I very well .

And then when he was caught , he started pretending that he's not able to read for some reason uh is making it difficult for me to read .

So I want the Muslims when they're watching it just to understand how I deal with different people is based on how I know where the psychology is coming from .

Basically